How to do it, and how to avoid it
See also "starbases" for some starbase-specific ogging tips

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 14:18:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Donald Alan Sutton <ds50+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Bulletin Board Administration <bb+andrew.games.xtrek@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ogging, Running

>       I had a talk a while ago with Shin.  I was complaining that my
>    relatively new character (Devil's Dam) just couldn't get a good ratio.
        -Hugh

Hmm. I have to admit I've helped cause the problem somewhat.  My standard playing tactic (now...) goes something like this.

1. Look at the players on the other team, anyone who has kills dies.
2. When all the players having more than 2 kills and all 1 kill assaults
   are dead then hop in a scout/destroyer and go deep bombing until they
   have no armies
3. Goto 1

Subject to the following "interrupts"

1. At any point in the above if we happen to find myself with >1 kill grab some armies and take a planet until we get ogged to death.
2. Stop and defend some newly taken planet since it may only have 1 army on it and is too easily taken (by the way this is a great opportunity for ogging the guy who is coming in to take the planet back.....)
3. Ogg the enemy SB if he's hurt/too deep in my territory
4. At a random point in time when the enemy team is on a low ebb, play conservative to gain 2 kills then play the old Quar technique (be a general planet-taking/runner scum.... :-) )

As it happens I'm not too concerned about who I'm ogging in step #1 so anybody with kills becomes a target.  Though as time progresses I stop ogging people when they show a lack of interest in taking planets.  Why ogg the dogfighters?  But it usually takes 30 minutes before I sort out who's who....

        - Admiral Quar

P.S.  We could always take planets, but now I ogg respectively, though I still can't dogfight worth shit against the "good" players.  But I'm still learning..... QUAR WITH THE 1.0 OFFENSE!!  (:-))

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 15:09:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Maxwell Anderson Hopkins <mh5a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Lui Sieh <ls2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ogger scum (me)
CC: Bulletin Board Administration <bb+andrew.games.xtrek@andrew.cmu.edu>

Kevin M. Bernatz writes:
>(I've started to experiment with new strategies to defeat ogging, including heading at max warp straight at the attempted ogger.  This causes him to decloak to late and, if locked on to you, be way behind you.  If not locked on, he's gonna be even farther behind by the time he slows down.  So far its proved interesting, but not totally effective. {once ran by the ogger straight into the enemy SB, not very fun... })

I find the best way to defeat the oggers is to run at max warp anywhere from head on to right angles to the ogger this causes him to fly by and it is easy to pour torps into him and a phaser burst or two to finish him off.  This takes timing though for starting to early you get at to far a range and the kill probability is to low and starting too late the ogger's chance to kill you, especially in a BB with those @(%!*%  Phasers, dramatically increases.  Leaving the planet at anything greater than 90 degrees is usually fatal, because of the ogger's explosion.

Maxwell A. Hopkins
a.k.a Flt. Capt. RoboSpock
a.k.a. Lt. Com. Fuck Stats-WIN!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 18:11:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Lui Sieh <ls2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
To: Bulletin Board Administration <bb+andrew.games.xtrek@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Running from oggers
Cc:

Kevin, Max

with all due respect, the easiest way to escape any ogger is to do two things

1. CLOAK, then
2. Max warp out of there in any direction.

It's that's simple.

//'I suck' <insert favorite noun :-)>

------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1991 02:44:30 -0500
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Help File 12 - Ogging

Greetings all,
Here's the Help-File on Ogging and How to Avoid being Ogged.  Since everyone's been wondering I decided to post it, as well as send it to the people who asked me.  (Note:  This is a long post).

Chapter 12:  Ogging and How to Avoid Being Ogged.

The act of ogging is the suiciding of your ship with the sole intent of killing a specific enemy ship (hereby refered to as the target).  An ogger does not care if he lives or dies and often tries to utilize his explosion as a form of attack on the target.  An ogger only cares if his target dies.

NON-SB  TARGETS

Choosing Your Ship:
You can ogg in any ship (except SB's), with BB's and CA's being optimal due to their excellent phasers and tractors.  BB's and CA's are also the best ogging ships because of their fuel supply and their ability to take more damage than other, smaller ships (this extra damage often allows you to get one more phaser off, or allows you to close to where your explosion will also kill your target.)  AS an ogger, you want to use your ship's explosion as a weapon.  You want to keep tractoring your target so that he cannot escape the additional 100 points of damage you will cause him (70 if you are in a scout).  If your target is flying a fast ship, you probably do not want to fly a BB.  If your target is a scout, you don't want a CA either.  (The only exception to this is an inexperienced target who will not run-away from a cloaker/ogger.  In this case, the BB/CA's phasers will destroy the smaller ship of the target).  If the target is a DD or SC, I would suggest trying a DD  (using a SC if you are adept at them).  If you choose one of these smaller ships, you must make sure you are as close as possible before attacking, since it is doubtful you will get a second shot off.  The only other time you chose a fast ogging ship is if you have just failed an ogg, and left the target at warp 3 or less.  In this case, you want a scout inorder to minimize the amount of repair and running that the target can do. 

Knowing When to Ogg:
The best time to ogg is while the target is engaged in a dogfight or has other opponents on his tactical screen.  An inexperienced target will almost never be watching his galactic at times such as these (Note:  good players ALWAYS watch the galactic, even while dogfighting...but this is the time when they are most susceptible to being ogged).  Try to conserve fuel on the approach, avoiding enemy ships who wish to dogfight.  Remember that your sole task in the world is to kill the target...not some joe-schmoo who happens to get in your way.  There are two approaches to ogging:

1. You fly max warp as soon as you appear, and refuel before the ogg if necessary.  Often you do not even refuel, but simply fly max warp right at the target. 
2. Conserve fuel by flying at your ships cruise speed.  Wait for your target to pick his planet that he wants and intercept him.  A variation of this theme is to wait until your target is "dogfighting" someone (see above) and then begin your ogg wave.

The Ogg:
Once you choose to begin your ogg wave (which is as soon as you come out in case 1 above..), you should do the following.  First, don't lock onto the target, you will slow down at an inopportune time if you do.  Wait until the last possible moment before you cloak.  This will become clear with time, but you obviously don't want to cloak while they are on the screen.  Good players will recognize an ogg if you cloak while off the screen.  In this case, you should cloak even farther back.  Again, you will have to get the feel of when to cloak depending on who the target is.  While cloaked, fly max warp towards target.  Do not fly straight at target, or straight behind if you can avoid it.  If the target turns and begins to run, uncloak ASAP.  If you do not uncloak and hose him immediately, he will simply make you run out of fuel.  Try to uncloak as close to the target as possible.  The closer you are, the more damage your phasers will do, the less likely he will dodge your torps, and the greater the chance that you will be able to blow up on him.  When you uncloak, immediately do ALL the following (yep, ogging is not easy....)

1. tractor the enemy
2. phaser the enemy
3. fire torps at the enemy
4. det the enemies torps if they are going to hit (you often det anyways since you should be almost right on top of them and  you will assume that his torps will hit...)
5. get your ship as close to his as possible (which may require turning, slowing down/speeding up, or both...) Once you are able to master this, you should be able to begin ogging effectively.  The most important thing is to know when to ogg.

ABORTED OGGS
Sometimes you will simply not be able to reach your target.  Either he will run too quickly, you'll be too damaged, or you will have run out of fuel.  In cases such as these it is important to give your kill to someone who can not use it.  Use the following chart while deciding who you will let kill you.  (NOTE:   You want them to kill you since that way you can grab another ship and ogg the target agian.  Good oggers never give up, though you may have to change targets). 

1. The enemy SB.  (SB's can't do anything with thier kills except look at them...)
2. HunterKiller (it doesn't matter if the robot gets kills).
3. Let the target have your kill (he already has kills, so one more won't help him any....)
4. A clueless Ensign on the other team.  (he'll probably die before he ever uses your kill....)
5. Enemy Planet (This will work on if you are badly damaged).
6. Any person on the other team with 2 or more kills (They can already carry enough armies to take a planet so one more kill  won't give them any advantage).
7. Someone who is very hurt (you might be able to kill them with your explosion).

SB OGGS

Ogging a SB is much different than ogging a normal player.  A SB is not going to run away from you (at least not at a speed you need to worry about.....).  SB's will also be concentrating on cloakers, since that is their main threat.  In order to do an effective SB ogg, you should never** lock onto the SB since you will slow down to warp 2 unless you continue to hit a higher warp key.  The approach is the most important part of the SB ogg.  There are three possible ways to approach the SB. (NOTE: You are cloaked in the first two approaches, uncloaked in the third.)

1. Fly at max warp, but NOT DIRECTLY AT HIM.  If you fly directly at him, you will almost certainly die, either by plasma or a stream of torps aimed at your ?? marks.  If you approach this way, aim at a point 1-2 inches to the side of the base.  Uncloak BEFORE you are along side him, and tractor him into you.  This makes you a harder target to hit, but you will probably not blow up on him. 
2. The other approach is to lower your speed to approx. warp 4 (to dodge plasmas and torps).  Choosing your time to uncloak is the tricky part.  The best time to uncloak is immediately after the SB has fired a stream of torps that will miss you.  By doing this, the only weapon he can use is his phaser, unless he det's his own torps.  This might allow you to get off two phasers and two torp streams, though it is still unlikely.  Once you uncloak, you should immediately tractor, phaser and torp.  You probably do NOT want to det his torps, since the only chance you have of living long enough for another phaser is if he misses with his torps.
3. This approach works best against inexperienced or hurt bases.  Simply grab a BB (CA's might work as well....), and fly max warp straight at the base.  As soon as the base is on your screen begin to tractor, phaser and shoot torps.  If you KNOW you are not going to be able to dodge his torps, det them.  Otherwise, try to get as close as possible before exploding.  
4. Do not expect to kill the SB with one ogg, you must be willing to simply put as much dmg as possible into him with your ship, and hope that everyone else can finish him off.  Remember that you can also grab another ship and attack him again before he can move very far (though SB repair rates are higher than normal ships....). 

EFFECTIVE SB OGGS (ie, COORDINATION)
Against an experienced SB, one person ogging will never kill him.  If you wish to cause any sort of damage to him, you must be able to organize your team for a multi-person ogg.  In this case, you want to attack from as many sides as possible.

***NOTE:   Never fly on top of, or directly behind another ogger.  This will allow the SB to fire at two guys at once, often killing the second with the explosion of  the first.  YOU MUST SEPERATE!  Having more than one ogger blow up with one torp spray is the reason why many SB's have lived.  It CAN make that much of a difference.  Since you know this, it is up to you to move your ship so that you are not in the same line of attack as another teammate.  Remember...seperate, and kill.   **

It will often require more than one ogg wave to kill a good SB.  In this case, you must be willing to sacrifce a planet or two if you know the enemy SB if almost dead.  (A good indication is if he is at warp 1 ,which indicates that he has 300+ internal).  In coordinating SB oggs, it is often effective to combine a type 1,2 ogg with a type 3 ogg.  This will make his escorts shoot at the uncloaked person, increasing the chance that the cloaked oggers will get in. 

AVOIDING OGGS
  There are many ways to avoid being ogged.  I will simply list them since they should be self explanitory.

1. cloak and run at a 90 degree angle to the incoming ogg
2. simply run at a 90 degree angle to the incoming ogg
3. run directly away from the ogger
4. cloak and fake a run, but then fly directly by the ogger
5. slow down until you think he's just about to uncloak (don't let him get too close, though....) and then accelerate.  Fire torps and phasers as soon as he uncloaks....
6. run to your SB and let him kill the ogger
7. run straight at him (though this is very dangerous against good oggers....)
8. cloak and run striaght at him (still dangerous, but less so....)
9. fly to a pack of friends and let them get the free kill.....

  The best defense against an ogg, is either #1 or #2.  In either of these cases, always fire torps behind you in the hopes of pinpointing the oggers location.  Once you know roughly where he is, try to phaser him inorder to attract the attention of your teammates.  NOTE:  Do not do this if you are low on fuel.  It is more important for you to avoid the ogg, than to kill the ogger. 

Note 2:  If you should ever find yourself unable to avoid the ogg completely, remember to pressor the ogger ASAP!  You should also try to just cripple him, since you will then have some time to take a planet, repair, or refuel before he is either killed, or repairs sufficiently.  If necessary det his torps, since he will generally have less fuel than you.  Remember....always watch your galactic map!

------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.games.xtrek
Subject: Duck's Secret to Reaming a Base
Date: 28 Oct 91 01:00:41 GMT
Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator)

Since I hate starbases I am divulging one my best starbase ogging  secrets. All it takes is a good partner to really hurt the base on your  first run and then the second run usually finishes him off, but by then the whole team know the base is in trouble so it is usually a goner.

Basically, the whole key to a joint ogg is timing, you want the first ship to be appear next to the base just a split second before the next ship appears  which adds the most fright to a base pilot. This is rather difficult to  achieve since one must tell the other when he goes in for the ogg and how fast he is going. Thus lost time in typing, a couple of valuable  seconds that can make the difference.

Solution:
Use your galactic map! A signal given by the designated leader is the best bet to go in once you see it. Cloaking is the signal that I use since you can see a cloaker on the galactice map. Why use the galactic map? Cuz you want your partner to ogg from the opposit direction, not on your local map, to have the starbase's torps more spread out. Usually, one ship from the left and one from the right. But in order ot be effective both ships must be close to equidistant from the base when the leader cloaks. And both must max warp at it and the closer you get to the base the more of your personal skill you use to get as close to the base as possible. As you can see however both ships will arrive at the base at pretty much the same time and you allow one ship to uncloak first which will send most of the bases's torps at him while the next uncloaks pretty much on top giving it all she has. Freeman and I (Koh) on CMU ogged Tufu behind Rom using this tactic even with all that delay. I ask Gundam to experiment with me on bezier on some pretty good base, it only took us 2 runs togehter to get it. And we did it 3 times that game. So far on average a successful ogg like that put about 600 damage since usually 260 comes from 2 battleship explosions and the rest phaser fire major torps. As for the personal touch of getting in close to a base alone, Ronnie Lott will not give away that secret. Heheheh.

Duck Dodgers

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jwest@weevil.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Jay West)
Subject: Re: Locking & Clockers
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 06:23:13 GMT

I use this feature VERY often - when ogging & for planet defense. Hate to give away something that can be used against me, but here goes....

When ogging a person who cloaks a lot: Just before you cloak, lock on to him.  As you approach and he cloaks, immediately uncloak to save fuel.  Watch the galactic map.  If it appears he is changing directions, slow to warp 1 or 2 ASAP and you will track him.  When it looks as if he finished his manuver, max warp - thats what he'll probably do.  Speed control via careful watching of the galactic map is critical in order to track him but not lose him.  Throw out one or two phasers directly in front of you to try for phaser lock.  If you get it, phaser mercilessly and rely on the phaser lock.  More often than not, you'll get him.  You can do the slow-auto-turn manuver while cloaked if he has defenders, uncloaking as soon as you've got a true bearing, but don't spend too much time cloaked - watch your fuel.  If you have to dodge torps, do it - and you're no worse off than not getting the lock.  You win if you don't have to doge.

When ogging a person who doesn't usually cloak:  Forget the lock - going straight at him usually means a torp stream in the face.   But you won't need it since he's not cloaked.  For someone who fires a stream first and then cloaks, wait for him to fire and then establish the lock.  He's toast (hopefully) if he cloaks.  Know you're enemy's tactics.

Planet defense: You know who the army carriers are - there should be very few of them.  Stay at a planet warp 0, establish lock on the most threatening person.  Just sit there until he is about to orbit, then fire like crazy directly in front of you.  Most effective against pesky scouts who usually zoom in without escorts.  They can be in and out before you can hunt him in the normal method.

Some other food for thought:
When ogging and the carrier has escorts that you have difficulty penetrating - forget the carrier and ogg one of the escorts.  You want to get rid of as many escorts as possible before the group gets to one of your planets.  You are relying on the rest of your team to take out what's left.  Often, you can get two or three attempts at your primary target before he reaches the planet he is going after.

When ogging, you WANT to die.  First, you are counting on your explosion to cause additional damage.  Second, you don't want to waste time repairing/refueling - you want to come back immediately and resume the pressure.  HOWEVER, you MUST take out your target, and get killed by ONLY him - don't leave a kill behind.  If you do, you have nother target to add to your list.  A very effective tactic I recently picked up from MUCUS PIG is to intentionally drop your shields when you KNOW you will kill him.  Ogging is used for kill management - you defeat your purpose if you give away kills. When ogging and your target runs deep into his own space and you are doubtful that you can get him, ogg someone else.  You've accomplished your mission - prevent him from taking a planet/dropping armies.  Don't let someone else get an easy kill while you single-mindedly go after your primary target.  Once he comes forward again, go after him again.  You gain precious time for your own planets to pop in LPS situations, and the rest of the time you are effectively slowing the enemy's expansion.  Runner scums are the least threat to your team - they can't take planets if they are always running.
Watch what Val (can't spell his full name), ensign, MUCUS PIG and other good oggers do when they ogg you, and learn from them.

Just some ramblings that I hope will be usefull.......

West

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Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 13 May 1992 08:52:22 -0400
From: Donald Alan Sutton <ds50+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Strategy---how do you know??

Some notes from Quar:
If I'm ogging ensign clueless (hope no-one is using that name...) I can usually live and have a little fuel left.  The trick is if I can die and get back to the front line faster than I can by going to a fuel planet and refueling then I want to die.  If you decide the game needs a dedicated ogger (my favorite!) then consider declaring peace with your enemy if the game is fairly even or your loosing.  If you miss in an ogg or have to chase someone too far you can always refuel at their planets then.....  Unfortunately you can't bomb so you give up that option, but one can't have everything.

I'm not positive but I think I invented the shield drop ogg as well as the det once past just incase the guy missed you!!!  The det also has the added benefit of injurying someone who is real close to your intended target plus if anyone else fired at you your det will injury the target.

The greatest and most careful oggs are those I achieve under the nose of a SB.  There is nothing like ogging someone next to a base (this is where I usually kill the guy with a DET and "phasor of death" since I may not even fully decloak before I'm pulverised.  - you can det while cloaked so det those SB torps on your victim and use your explosion to finish him off).  Note: ogging someone next to a really cluefull SB (i.e. Balton/Kevin) is really hard and I suggest waiting for the guy to leave before ogging him, but if he's only ferrying to the SB then "go for it".

The art: to die right on top of your target.

-Quar

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Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1992 19:42:13 -0400
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to ogg?

>Hi! I have been playing Netrek for more than one and a half
>months now, but I can't figure out how to ogg (a normal ship
>or a starbase)? Lock on target flying at max warp doesn't work.

Maxwarp is mostly useful for getting generally near the target befor she wanders off.  Once you are actually in shooting range, you will probably want to be going slower.  Watch your fuel.  While a kill can be made with just over 1000 fuel + your own explosion, most succesful Oggs require ~3000 fuel after coming out of cloak. Know when to uncloak.  Know what to do when you do.  There is a good deal of just pure practice involved, but here are some rules of thumb:

1. Uncloak where they don't expecet you.  If you've come in from the back, try to slide past to the side.  This makes it harder to hit you with a planned stream of torps.
2. Try to find your target unready.  If she's fighting, running from someone else, or going to orbit, she's probably not ready to be Ogged.
3. Det.  You should assume that your target expects you, and will fire.  You will take some damage.  Minimise it.
4. If they know exactly where you are, you might as well uncloak.  You will probably wipe out, but at least you can do some damage.
5. Tractor works befor your other weapons do.
6. If she runs straight away at maxwarp, she'll probably get away.  Chase her off, and the retreat or die and be ready to try again.
7. If you have to die (and sometimes you do), give the kill to a player who can't use it.  Normally, whoever you're ogging is the best choice, but most SBs are more than willing to kill you.
8. If your target runs deep into third planet space, uncloak and Shark Ogg her.  Don't get too close (practice again).  Cut her off whenever she tries to go home, and dodge her torps, but you don't need to attack until the time is perfect.  Try to get her to a wall, or better, a corner.  When she tries to turn arround, use the heavy end of the hammer.
9. Make sure you die.  Turn your sheilds off, and get right on top of her.

ZZnew guy

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat,  4 Jul 1992 21:17:50 -0400
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: SB stuff

First of all, 90% of SB Oggs are pointless and should not be attempted. Don't call for the Ogg unless you are:

1. Sure to do it in one wave
2. Certain that the SB is of critical immediate importance (ie. LPS) or c) certain that your team won't do anything useful until it's gotten base Ogging out of it's system.

Having determined that Ogging *is* worth it, you must then determine what you have to Ogg with and against.  I will assume that it is not a clued SB with a clued defense at it's home planet, because this would be impossible to Ogg, and therefore not worth the effort.  Find out who all is reading your message bboard.  If you have a fair number who answer messages quickly, you have a fighting chance at an Ogg. 

What to write:  Let your team know that you are in for the Ogg.  Try to pick a time when they are not carrying armies.  Give them a good estimate of when the Ogg will hit the SB.  60 seconds is a good amount of time.  It is also good to post a few times after that so that people know about how long it's been since the first post.  60, 40, 20, 10, is probably good.  If you get sidetracked on the way in, hope that the team goes in anyway.

Always assume that your team will take a no-optimal line in.  This means that you will lose a lot of teammates.  YOU should try to be behind the SB on the assumption that your teammates won't be.  Hit the base a moment before or a moment after the rest of the team does.  This forces the base to either presser toward your teammates or toward you, in either case, it takes extra damage.  Only cloak to avoid escorts.  The base has only one presser beam, and she's going to use it on someone. Save your fuel for doing damage.  Try to blow up on the base, but not until you've hit it a bunch at range.  Your explosion is only worth 3 torps.

ZZnew guy

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Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: SB stuff
Date: Sat, 04 Jul 92 18:03:02 GMT

bcranton@femme.WPI.EDU (Brian W. Cranton) writes
> In other words, if you want to put an SB ogg together or you want to
> coordinate one, what would you do/say?  Or does everyone have to sort
> of know what to do ahead of time (an either you know it or you don't
> situation)?

What I want to see is:

F0->FED  base og soon?
F4->FED  i'll og base with my next ship
F6->FED  me too
F7->FED  ogging, synching with F4

So far without anybody firing a shot or even looking threatening so as to scare the base; you don't want it to retreat, and you especially don't want it to get escort.  The feds that are ogging should watch each other on the galactic map, especially watching F4, so they all arrive simultaneously from different angles, and uncloak together.  As the synch man, F4 should ideally be starting from far away and moving steadily towards the target. to make it easy for people to tell how long they have to get there.  If F4 gets held up or killed, you can still synch with his ghost, i.e. pretend he was able to continue.  For the next wave, use a scout if you need to catch up to F4, and if you have extra time, go around to attack the base from behind.  After two waves, the og may be detrimental, in which case you need some leadership to say:

F4->FED  last wave...
F4->FED  CEASE OG
F4->FED  3++ 8++

The team is never going to completely agree on when to og, and when to stop, so you've got to somehow have a leader that people heed.

Another tough question is whether to scum planets while your team is ogging the base, or to help with the og instead.  In most cases I'd say keep on scumming, but it's a touchy point.  Against an LPS where the defenders have a base, always go for the planet if you can; the base og is most valuable as a distraction to help you take the planet. In an even game, you should perhaps help with the base og instead, if only to show team spirit.

No, I don't think it's reasonable to expect to be able to instruct newbies on this or any other difficult aspect of the game over the message board during a game.  But once you have the good players coordinated, maybe they'll figure out how to join up with the attack wave. It probably won't really matter; it's the first wave which does the most damage, and only clue and timely message-reading is going to give you a good synchronized first wave.

  -- Red Shirt

------------------------------

From: jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SB ogging
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:15:45 GMT

> I have had multiple people call me a fool for locking onto the SB while
> ogging it, so I'll post my method for critique.

     I must have missed this thread, or I would have slammed them in your defense.  Locking is good.

> This is written assuming a CA and a lightly defended base.  I don't
> usually kill a decent base if I'm by myself, but I can hurt her enough to
> make her withdraw from the front.  There are some bases that are so good
> that I am pushed away and killed before I can finish uncloaking.  I
> normally don't bother them more than once or twice.  It's strange, my
> team normally looses when one of these bases and a small amount of clue
> is on the other side. :)

You've got a bad attitude, son.  _Any_ base can be squashed.  (Response/flames in e-mail, please.)  It just takes a little planning and some clueful friends.

> 1. Aim 90 out from directly toward the base.

Hmm... every place is 90 degrees out from the base.  It's a circle:)

> 2. MaxWarp.

I always slam on the maxwarp button, but I rarely make it _to_ maxwarp before I'm changing speeds to avoid torps/phasers.

> 3. Lock onto the base.  You should stay about the same distance from the
> base but move around to the back half.

Don't get too predictable.  Any real baser watches for certain people and learns where they'll go.

> 4. Drop warp to about 7.  You should do this about the time you cross to
> the bases half of the map.  You will begin to spiral into the base.

You're too far out, if you're going warp 7.  Tighter spirals are necessary to actually get to the base.  A good baser will peg you with phasers if you spend too much time flying on the periphery.
And ah... I see why people criticized you.  I _never_ lock on to bases _this_ far out.  I'll finish with your list, then say where I'd do it differently.

> 5. When you are fairly close wait for a torp spread/plasma in your
> direction. After they pass drop to around warp 5. You will aim for the
> base.  Since you will slow down because of the lock you may need to hit
> the speed key several times.  On a good base you may need to forget the
> lock at this time and dodge, but not usually.

     You're getting way too specific here.  It's impossible to judge what will happen at this point.  You just have to react.  That's why warp 5 is also too fast.  Try warp 4 when you're "fairly close"  A psychic CA can weave his way through SB torps fairly well, alternating between 3 and 4.

> 6. Uncloak and follow S.O.P. (Standard Ogging Procedure.)  Don't forget to
> tractor.

Tractoring should not be an afterthought.  _Ever_.

> 7. Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.

Perhaps you should focus on a different mantra my child.  *edit* *edit *edit*

> 7. Blood, blood, blood makes the grass grow...

Okay... it seems Roger has the right idea, for the wrong reasons. Let's go visit FillInTheBaseOgg and see what he thinks about this (not that any of you give a flying Philadelphia, but it's my post, so there..)

     The locking function is very useful..  when you're practically on top of the base.  After you've weaved your way through the torps at warp 3-4, follow this procedure (modifying as necessary).

1. Aim past him to the side, and increase to warp 5-6.
2. Raise shields if they're not already up (they should be up:).
3. Wait until you're just about next to him, then...           LockonUncloakTractorPhaserTorpTorpTorpTorpTorpTorpTorpTorpPhaser
   If he had people on or near him, insert liberal detting in with the weapons firing, in the hopes of taking someone with you.

     The reason for the lock on and tractor, is that at warp 3-4 you can pull a tight circle on top of him, and since you're not really allowed to dock, you'll just drop to warp 2 and flit back and forth across his surface.  Even against the best bases this can cause a few of their weapons to miss.  You don't have to change your aim, of course..  Just keep the mouse on his center and slam those weapons.

     Some quick hints :

• Against the better bases, drop your shields on top of them.  Die before they get the opportunity to pressor you away.
• If there are people on top of him, treat it just like you're ogging them.  If they try to get away, tractor/pressor them right back onto the base, while you're firing all your weapons.  Explosions are  pretty..
• Don't worry about losing fuel..  You won't be needing more than 5000 when you hit the base.  So you'll spend about 2000 crusing to the base at maxwarp, shields down, then another 3000 getting in close, cloaked.  With 5000 left, you'll have enough for a full round of  weapons, tractors, and a det.
• The Tractor, inserted between the Uncloak and Phaser in the sequence I presented earlier, is a necessity, and has no penalty associated with it.  There's the delay between uncloaking and firing that you can't avoid anyway, so make use of it by tractoring and even dodging a little.
• Don't clump your torps if you're firing from a distance.  Use a nice spread, so he can't get them with one det.
• Phasers are _nasty_ at close range.  If you get on top of the base fully uncloaked, you should do a _minimum_ of 200 damage between your phasers and explosion.  If he's a pressor base, make sure you drop your shields in the hopes of exploding before you get too far away.
• When you're coming en masse, always have one person uncloak a little earlier.  Make sure he is your best dogfighter, with the ability to phaser plasmas and dodge torps.  Have him uncloak at about maximum phaser range for him, and then try to proceed toward the base at warp 4, detting and phasering.  Torping is optional.  It can be used by the base to blow up your teammates, but if they're on top of him like that, you _want_ them to explode;)

     Ack.. I've gotta run to a meeting.. more later.

     Jim / FillInThe_____

------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 15:52:33 -0500
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Yea, tho' I walk through the valley of the shadow of Red Shirt

> The only time i use SC to ogg is to ogg
> difficult DDs and to ogg SCs.  The only time i use CA to ogg is to ogg tough
> BBs and bases.  Otherwise, the DD is a great ogger.  On average the CA is
> better at ogging, but i prefer using the DD because it turns better and has
> better brakes.

You say that the only time you use a scout is to ogg difficult DD's.  Perhaps that's the point that people are trying to illustrate.  Against average Joe Schmo's the DD is a good ogger, but against good INL calibre players (read : difficult DD's and scouts) you need to use a scout (which is what 5150 does).  I find it hard to believe that against a *harder* opponent you would use a ship that would be worse at ogging (and hense decrease your chance of killing him). 

My personal preference really depends on the location of the carrier, who he is, and what ship type he is in.  All of these play into what ship type and what tactic I use (Escort type and number also play into what tactic). 

EnemyMeMe if enemy has good escort
SC (near front)SC/DDSC/DD and a prayer
SC (backfield)CACA
DD (front)SC/DDSC/DD and a prayer
DD (back)DD/CACA
CA (front)SC/DD/CADD/CA
CA (back)CA/BBCA/BB
BB (front)CACA/BB
BB (back)SC/CA/BBCA/BB
AS (front)SC/DD/CASC/DD/CA
AS (back)CACA

    Basically, I prefer ogging in a CA since the combined phaser power and maneuverability makes it (IMNSHO) the best ogger.  If you uncloak and phaserlock any ship on the first shot you probably have a 80+% chance of killing it no matter what escort is around (assuming you are within 30-40 point phaser range).  Against good planet takers this probably drops to around 50% and if you miss your first phaser I'd say it's more like 40%/20% for average/good planet takers, respectively.  Everyone is going to have their own opinion, so argueing the merits of one over the other is not exactly an easy thing to do :).

-KB
 Rear Admiral Akira

------------------------------

From: "Robert W. Hill" <rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SCBO base ogg technique (pat pend)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 03:51:08 -0400

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 20-Apr-93 Re: SCBO base ogg
technique.. Steve Sheldon@iastate.ed (2061)
> In <C5s8v0.H9y@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> books@nucmar (Roger Books) writes:
> >
> >  Since I have had a few requests for this, here is my patented base ogging
> >technique.  Comments, improvements, and criticisms are welcome.
> >
> >1. Get in a CA.  There is an alternate version for using a DD but that
> >   will be left to the reader to discover this.
>
>  Hmm...  Perhaps, I prefer the DD.  Does the same explosion damage,
> and is much more manueverable, and faster.
>
> [a lot of judgement calls deleted.]
>
>  I have no set method for approaching a SB.  I tend to find I need to vary
> this during each approach so the SB doesn't recognize a pattern.
>
>  Basically come in warp 10.  Drop to 7, come around and confuse base, hit
> maxwarp, close and...
>
> >6. When close, uncloak, tractor, phaser, torp..., det, repeat from
> >   phaser point if still alive.
>
>  The patented technique, is to put up shields, uncloak, tractor, dump a
> string of torps using keyboard, hit the phaser button on the mouse a few
> times.
>
> >7. If the base is trying to push you off drop shields.
>
>  Ahh, with the maxwarp method you either blow up in his face or zoom right
> on by.  In this case, go back a bit, refuel and come in on the next wave.
>
> >8. Explode on Base.
>
>  If you're trying to destroy a base, anybody who doesn't not blow up on him
> is not helping.  Too many twinks on doorstop haven't figured this out.
> plinking just doesn't do enough damage, and is useless.
>
> >9. Repeat as necessary.
>
> Repeat as necessary with 2-4 other friends.  All perfectly timed to uncloak,
> tractor, torp and phaser at same time.
>
>  A poor-decent base will die in one wave.  A good/great base will take two
> waves, possibly three.
>
>  Lone oggers don't do enough damage to make this worthwhile, unless you're
> trying to distract base.

Exploding on a base does 100 points of damage (provided you live long enough to get RIGHT on top of him, and you aren't in a SC or SB).  Thats 3 undetted torps worth.  Surely you can do more than that just by plinking the base.  I've always thought that explosion damage is a rather negligible portion of the damage that is needed to kill the base. DD's are useful for base ogging because they have more range capacity and manuverablity, not because they have the same explosion damage.  If you feel that to be an effective base ogger, you need to blow up on the base, then you wouldn't consider many of the games best base oggers to be effective.

Lone oggers can kill bad bases, and can even drive good ones back.

Plinking can kill bases much easier than oggs can, but plinking is much slower.  Often times there is a small window that you need to kill the base within (or, say, his escort arrives).  If you miss this window, you probably can't kill the base...and this is why base ogging is more useful than base plinking.  This is also why base plinking works less in very clueful games than in clueless games....because the windows are smaller.

The only real thing I want to add about base oggs is this:  I encourage diversity on base oggs.  I love to see an ogg with 1 SC, 2 AS's, 1 CA, 1 BB, and 1 DD.  An important part of a good base surviving base oggs is to estimate damage to kill a cloaker...using different ships makes this very difficult. 

See you on the net,

Rob
aka Spaceace!

------------------------------

From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SCBO base ogg technique (pat pend)
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 12:53:38 -0400

lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God) writes:
> I couldn't let this go by. BB-1, BB-2, and BB-3 have plinked many a
> base into submission. It basically takes 30 torps to kill a base.  If
> we fire 4 streams of 24 torps, only 8 need to hit out of each stream.
> If the base dets, that's even better, because he'll wtemp if he does
> it too much, and take a ton of damage if he tries to det only
> infrequently.

I disagree about the det comment.  It WILL decrease damage when done at the right times.

> When the BB's get down to about 3500 fuel, they move in for the kill.
> It takes about 20 seconds to kill a base this way,

Hmm...*which* base? 

> that it has 250 internal and the BB's are still there! If an ogger comes in
> while the base is distracted, it can sometimes do major damage and finish
> the job right there.

So the base doesn't det properly, and doesn't watch the galactic while being pelted. 

> When I am in the base, I fear 4 plinkers a lot more than 4 oggers.

Depends on how good my team is.  I can move away (with pressor) from 4 plinkers, and with occasional dets and torp streams keep damage down. Meanwhile my team has a 7 on 4 advantage. 

> I can usually kill 2 cloakers from each wave before they uncloak, and
> det the torps from the rest. Against a heavily escorted base, you have
> to ogg, although I'd still advise sending in a plinker or 2. But
> against an unescorted or lightly escorted base, plinking is the best
> use of your fuel.

What is the best use of time?  Fuel is free...

> Against good players, cloaking is just a waste of fuel anyway.

NO!  It will take a few extra shots to locate you (minor advantage).  He can't see exactly where everyone is when aiming weapons (moderate advantage), and he can't TP you (HUGE advantage). 

Even if you're plinking, allowing the base the pressor of someone to move away is negating a large portion of the advantage you've attained by staying at range.

I've seen large number of potentially crushing ogg waves broken up because someone came in uncloaked, and the base pressored them (and they kept coming).  Wonderful, now the base is moving away (so you burn more fuel/time to catch up to him), it's easier for him to dodge, and he's getting closer to his friends. 

joe

------------------------------

From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Ogging a good base
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:29:22 -0400

    Ogging a base is, in essense, petty simple.  Just do 1100 damage, and it's gone.  One CA can do this on one tank of gass if everything is perfect.

Probelm:  It's never perfect.  It's never even close.

Normally, when Ogging the base, 2 or 3 players do the VAST majority of the damage.  All of the Other Oggers do a little damage, but more importantly they open up the opportunity for those 2 or 3.  When Ogging the base, as with any other time, play like a team player.  Sure, if you get the chance to unload, you should, but if you can open up the hole for a team-mate, do so.  You can help by:

1. Ogging an escort (unless you're right at his homeworld).
2. Plinking from behind so that he can't retreat.
3. Plinking while he's trying to repair between Oggs.
4. Running around cloaked to raise his w-temp  (It's very useful to get phasered at 20 point range in an AS.)
5. Tractoring team-mates off of eachother.  You'd be surprised by how many Oggs are ruined because two people are on top of each other.
6. Drawing off his escort by taking Cet (agri).
7. Bomb or take a planet really near him.

ZZnew guy

------------------------------

From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Defending planets against bases

All too often, I see something like this:

Team A is busily flying around Doing Stuff.  Team B's base moves over to the nearest enemy agri with some escorts, and they take the planet with the base supporting.

Team A then goes wild trying to ogg the base, which is already retreating as fast as it can.  Naturally, they fail.

Whenever I see a base heading toward an agri, I start posting "BASE is moving to Arc" messages on the team board.  IMnsHO, *THIS* is when the base ogg should begin, when it's a bit over halfway between home and the front.  It doesn't have to be a full ogg, just 3-4 guys synchronized enough to get in past the escort or two and do a few hundred points of damage to the base... enough to make it think twice about trying to escort all the way to the planet.  One of the escorts probably has a couple of kills, so one of the oggers can nail the escort instead.

It all depends on what else is going on, of course, but I'd like to see a bit more "preventative base ogging".

(We now return you to your regularly scheduled Justin[*] flamefest.)

[*] ObJustin

--
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]

------------------------------